FG lacks comprehensive policy on fighting terrorism – Mohammed
Alhaji Lai Muhammed is the interim National Publicity Secretary of All Progressives Congress (APC). In this interview with ADEWALE AJAYI and PATRICK OKOHUE, he states that the road map launched by his party would proffer solutions to major problems confronting Nigeria. He also emphasises that Boko Haram insurgency persists because Jonathan administration lacks comprehensive policy on terrorism, alleging that the president threats corruption matter with levity, among other issues of national importance.
APC has launched its road map to a new Nigeria, what are the core issues the party intends to focus on in 2015 and in going forward?
You see in my own short experience as a politician, this is the first any political party will arrive at a road map through a sensitive process. This road map we have arrived at is not just a product of some egg heads or experts who sat in one room and say let’s make a mindset of manisfesto for our political party. Yes, when we were looking for registration in order to meet early speculations, we had a manisfesto committee which tried to reach out, we invited several pressure groups to ask them what is it that they want within Nigeria, we know that was not enough. Immediately after registration, we engaged the services of a renowned experts to conduct survey all over Nigeria and the survey that was conducted was arguably the largest in the history of Nigeria because in that survey, we interviewed about 29,000 Nigerians, asked each of them 60 questions, that is how we came about what is exactly the needs of Nigerians, what is exactly the pains of Nigerians and what is it that Nigerians want most. These are what we put together and we came to realise that there are three major issues bordering Nigeria, there are: insecurity, unemployment and corruption and we were able to also see that those three issues, insecurity and corruption militate against employment, development, good infrastructures. Those two issues, insecurity and corruption will make it impossible for any Nigerian to realise his potentials or deposit his qualities adequately, that is how we came about our road map.
To answer your question, this is our road map to new Nigeria and under this road map, we dealt with job creation, like I told you everywhere we went, Nigerians are concerned about job creation, we said by the grace of God, as soon as we win election, we will create 20,000 jobs in every state of the federation and as a way of encouragement, we will promise every state that for every one job created, we will create two at the federal level.
However, our job creation is conditional on two things, it is for people who have a minimum of school certificate and above, and who are willing to undertake vocational or technical training in addition and this is where I think we are complete and radically different from other political parties in Nigeria. Two, we intend there will be direct conditional monthly transfer of N5,000 to 25 million Nigerians who are most vulnerable upon demonstration of students school enrolment and immunisation to help promote job environment.
In the area of job creation again, we are going to provide allowances in discharge of unemployed youth corps member for 12 months while they seek jobs or acquire training and skill for job placement, otherwise a situation whereby people finish youth service and they can’t get a job, they will get paid the same amount they were being paid during youth service for the next twelve months, and they also take another skill training or entrepreneurship skill.
Another highlight of our programme is that we are going to provide one meal per day for students in primary school, we will continue to create job in agriculture, including poultry, catering, under the youth service in APC states. We believe that when we do that other states will be compelled. Others may ask how do we intend to achieve all these. The moment we are able to block leakages in government, money will be available for all these projects.When leakages are blocked, how do you intend you get it right because there will still be much to do?
You have even moving too far, I have just talked of how we are going to create jobs, I have not even spoken about how we are going to fight corruption, education, economy and I have not spoken about our road map for managing natural resources. By the time I talk to you on every aspect, either it is agriculture, management of petroleum resources, the stay of the economy is embedded. When you provide one meal a day in your schools, you will need a minimum of 10 million eggs, you are creating an economy, way back 2002, when Lagos State government wanted to embark on one meal a day, we realised that the combined capacity of all poultry farms in the entire South West will not meet their requirement. If not well planned you are going to drive the price of eggs upward.
If you look at the exponential effect of one meal a day, take egg only means you are going to encourage more farmers, many people will go into poultry, many people will go into livestock feed, it generates the economy, even transportation because the eggs will be transported from the farm base to the schools, even the cooks. You must employ some people to do the cooking, today 3,000 cooks work daily in Osun State because Osun has embarked on one meal a day project.
When you talk about the economy, you take it one by one,what is the economy today, it is basically oil, agriculture, duties collected in custom and taxes, and we believe that is wrong because 80 percent or 70 percent of our resources comes from oil, less than 30 percent of our jobs comes from the oil sector, and 20 percent of our wealth comes from agriculture, less than 20 percent of our people are involved in agriculture, there is a missing link.
Though the programme sounds laudable but you are aware that some states ruled by APC have initiated this kind of programme but is there effort on ground to sustain the programme, like OYES introduced in Osun State, the youths were engaged and some that have university degrees thought they will be engaged into the civil service but were disappointed that after the programme, they were laid off?
There is nobody in our OYES scheme that was laid off. Secondly, we never promised anybody that they will be merged into the civil service, that was their own belief, but when we engaged people on OYES, what was their qualification? Some people have OND, HND and Degree, what we did in Osun State was to show that opportunities are created. Between when he came to power and today, he has spent about N3 billion on the OYES scheme, and it has mopped up 20,000 to 30,000 people from the job market in Osun. We did not promise anybody that once you are in OYES, you are going to be a member of the civil service, otherwise, how can you inject 20,000 people into a civil service that its strength is less than 20,000? The OYES people, we made it clear to them that they will be employed and trained in various vocation, there are those trained in environment, road maintenance, and other areas, and we have not reneged, there is no day you go to Osun and Oyo that you don’t see the OYES or YES O men on the street.
As for sustainability, I told you the money that usually goes into private pocket will go a long way if it can be stopped to sustain a lot of our budget. Take for instance, under health, an APC government will stop the use of public fund to take care of any political office holder outside Nigeria. We were told last year that about N149 billion was spent on public officer to take care of their abroad.
Do you think that can be curbed because those involved are influential and can devise another means to go and treat themselves abroad?
We are not saying no governor can go abroad to treat himself, but they should not use public fund. You may wonder how are we going to achieve that, we will achieve it by providing free, quality, comprehensive health care based on a National Health Insurance Scheme. Secondly, we will encourage medical professionals to establish practices and work in rural and other medically unreserved areas.
How do you go about it, will you provide more incentive for them?
We will do this by providing incentives including tuitions and other training reimbursement for such professions. We will provide incentives for Nigerian doctors and health practitioners working abroad to return home to strengthen the health care industry in Nigeria and provide quality care to Nigerian. We will double the number of health care professionals, practising physicians and increase the quality of federal teaching hospital to world class standard. We have three incentives that we need to double, when people outside Nigeria comes to set up their practices in Nigeria, when you give incentives, it will increase the number of those who practise in Nigeria. The moment you stopped that, they can’t use public fund to go abroad for treatment, you will see many of our people migrating back home.
All these things are intertwined with the provision of decent infrastructure like power, roads, access to water and security. When you look at our road map and you take one without reading the whole thing, you will not get the impact of it. You cannot have qualitative health care system when you don’t have stable power supply, you encourage anybody to go to the rural area and be a doctor without providing sound school for his children there. For those who say our road map would not promise anything, we ask them, have they read it, do they understand it?
One thing that will interest Nigerians most is tackling the problem of insecurity because despite declaring state of emergency in three states in North-East, the activities of the insurgents did not subside, if your party comes to power, how can you resolve it?
It is very simple, number one, despite the setting up of the multinational, Joint Task Force, passing of the anti-terrorism Act, relocating the 7th Battalion to Maiduguri, deportation of foreigners, condition of Boko Haram insurgent, what we have to do is what is called a strategic stalemate, in the sense that, despite all the effort of the government, they have been unable to really contain the menace of Boko Haram.
Why has that happened? Yes, I must admit that the only success the federal government had had so far is that they have been able to limit the capacity of Boko Haram to make spectacular attack, like they did in Abuja in the Police headquarters and United Nations building but they have not been able to tame the monster, Boko Haram, has retreated into the interior, and today what does Boko Haram do, it goes for soft target, the schools, hospitals, air strips, like the attack on Konduga, Ubama, despite the increase funding and spending on security, the honest truth today is that, we had the strategic stalemate and why has it happened? Because this government does not even have a comprehensive policy on terrorism, they react to Boko Haram insurgents; they don’t have a comprehensive policy on how to tackle this matter.
Most of our reactions are spurred on the moment, chaotic and uncoordinated. I was alarmed when last we read on the papers that a General in Nigeria army admitted that Boko Haram stalemate is inconsequential, simply because they have not sat down together to really put things together, so admitting that government really has no comprehensive policy on Boko Haram. So, we must develop and publish identifiable objectives on how we are going to handle Boko Haram. Secondly, it is surprising that today, as we are talking, there is no government funded research on Boko Haram, if you want any information on Boko Haram you go to the media, by now the media should be able to have a centre that have a documented work on Boko Haram to know what they stand for, what do they want? What is their modus operandi? What is the structure of their leadership? You don’t have it and you cannot fight an insurgent without understanding the phenomenon of the insurgent, these are things that we will do when we get into government.
Sadly, the Federal Government is sincere to have been over defensive in their handling of Boko Haram. In recent time, there was altercation between frontline governors and the president, it is uncalled for, the frontline governors, Yobe, Borno and Adamawa are the direct victims of the Boko Haram insurgency. If it is in the favour of anybody that Boko Haram should end today, it is them, they are the ones that are losing their citizens, they are the ones that are losing their children, losing their economy and losing money meant for development for security, therefore, when a governor like Shettima, comes around and say Federal Government you are trying, but you are not doing enough, the Boko Haram people are better motivated, they are better equipped. This is somebody who is crying out desperation and frustration and anguish, you don’t attack such person by threatening to remove him, or allowing Doyin Okupe to abuse him.
Was there any time that there was clear indication that there was plan to remove Shettima?
Even the body language of the president during the media chat indicated that.
But what he said on a lighter mood?
Not jocularly, I will tell you that it was not possible, constitutionally, he can’t do it, but this is country impunity has been reigning for a long time, they might be testing water by that story.
The federal government and the state government must work together, and that is not happening today, there is a discordant tune from the federal government and the state government, and unless the two of them work together, they will never be able to resolve the issue. We must depoliticise and de-ethnicise the issue of Boko Haram. Boko Haram has gone beyond politics, Boko Haram started as a local insurgent, today they have become an international terrorist organisation, so any attempt to politicise it, or ethnicise it will not lead us anywhere. Now, I will tell you today, Boko Haram will never be defeated militarily alone.
What approach should be adopted?
No insurgency is ever defeated militarily alone, you must use a political, economic, the social approach with the militarily, by political I am talking about negotiation, we are talking about dialogue.
With who?
Who are the people being killed today?
But to a large extent they are faceless
There is no faceless enemy, this is part of the insincerity on the part of the government, and I am always worried and concerned that intelligent people like you repeat the same. Let me ask a question, why did government set up an amnesty committee led by a minister, who are they talking to. I mean the committee set up by the President for amnesty.
But the finding of the committee was not made public
If the government does not make the report public, does it mean they were wasting our time? I am incensed, when I hear that Boko Haram people are faceless. What do you mean they are faceless? They occupy a territory, in that territory, Adamawa,Yobe and Borno, we have traditional rulers, opinion leaders, market women, youths, we have government and retired civil servants and politicians these are all stake holders, any government that says it cannot talk to Boko Haram because they are faceless, that government has no moral right to govern the country. The modus operandi of most terrorist is that, you don’t see them striking, they don’t advertise where they live, today the USA is talking to Taliban, that brings me to another point, this federal government must climb down from the high horse, and be as humble as late Alhaji Umaru YarÁdua. When Yar’Adua was tackling Niger Delta militant issue, he was so humble that he started talking to militants, it annoyed the Generals, many people were incensed that they were using presidential planes to ferry the militants to come to the Presidential villa, many people were annoyed when they heard that people accused of murder and crime were then pampered, look at the result today.
We have the solution that is why I say we must align the political with the economic with the social. What do I mean, today there is economic stagnisation in the entire North East, the state of Boko Haram today according to the media is that it has led to 10,000 widows, 800 classrooms were destroyed in Borno, 209 schools in Yobe, in Potiskum which happens to be the biggest the largest and the most striving cattle market in West Africa has been destroyed, economic life of these people has stopped.
We must come in with a marshal plan, we need the marshal plan to re-energise the economy of that area, to help in solving Boko Haram insurgents, because today, when people who are unemployed and do not know what to eat, and somebody come to them and say take N10, 000 go and kill, believe me he has no choice than to accept. Again, we must de radicalise the North East, today the North East is so radicalised that all they hear is radical evangelism, how this government is not good, and whether it is better to have an Islamic state, how it is better defending it. You must de-radicalise it, you must find a way to send other messages to the youths. The youths today in Borno are harassed, detained, arrested and killed, you can’t do that and you are expected to win the war, you will only win the war, you lose the peace.
This is the most important issue in Nigeria today, our governors have made all this things available to the federal government, there is nowhere in the world that soldiers and policemen have ever arrived at making peace, no, you need to also engage internal peace leadership, local NGOs that will go and reconcile the various groups because people are traumatised, radicalised and indoctrinated. The issue of treatment, motivation and incentive of Boko Haram members is real, when the Boko Haram started, they were using bows and arrows and dane guns, today they use rocket propelled grenade, anti aircraft missiles.
Today they have Ak 47 that are well secured. I read in the papers today that soldiers are complaining, that even their welfare packages, medical packages is nothing to write home about, that they have to pay for drugs, they complained that they earn N1, 000 per day. They complained that they only pay N3, 000 to the family of every soldier that is killed. This is what we are talking about, the government should not just abuse people they should look into this, it is quite possible, that more money is being released and it is not getting to them, soldiers are complaining the morale is low.
Finally on this, nobody whatever you want to do with this Boko Haram, don’t fracture 2015 into it. People are suspecting already that what the government is doing today is to make sure that election will not hold in the North East. Is it not strange that in the last few weeks they are just killing, killing and government is just completely incompetent?
In fighting Boko Haram we need to enlist the operation assistant of ECOWAS, and African Union, because these people are trained in Mauritania and Mali, and some of these insurgents are not even Nigerians and a more robust and more focus foreign policy must be adopted.
You plan to tackle corruption, but it is common knowledge that most of those who aspire to go to public office are not interested in serving the people, but to enrich themselves, and the evidence are overwhelming that when they leave public office they are more richer, than when they went into it, even members of your party are no exception, so how do you intend to tackle the social menace which has pervaded our system?
You keep me upset when you trivialise serious issues. Is it a defence for the federal government that also APC is also corrupt, it is silly, look we are talking about $ 20 billion that is missing, do you know that no state in federation has received $ 20 billion in the last ten years as allocation. For people who do not know what $ 20 Billion worth, if a state collect N 5 billion every month, in a year it will only take N60 billion, making three years to take $ 1 billion, taking him 20 years of regular allocation of N5 billion every month to have $20 Billion, so the kind of money we are talking about is huge, there cannot be corruption at the state level if there is no corruption at the centre.
When a fish wants to get bad, it start from the head, if you have a federal government that has zero tolerance for corruption, and does not pay lip service to corruption. Don’t forget that every agency to investigate corruption is federal whether, ICPC, EFCC, or police. If the top has no tolerance for corruption there can’t be corruption in the state. That is why in our own government we would have zero tolerance for corruption, in our government the burden of innocence will be on those who have acquired wealth illegally, the burden of proof, it is not uncommon today, a poor man on Friday on Saturday he becomes rich, by Monday he has built house in Nigeria, nobody asks questions. I won’t mention names but we know some people who were like us four, five years ago, today they live in Banana Island, what they have done, what they have acquired, in terms of intellect, in terms of skill, to catapult them from where they were to Banana Island, we will start asking question.
We will also pursue legislation that will expand for forfeiture, and seizure of assets, and procedure with respect to inexplicable wealth, regardless of whether there is a conviction for criminal conduct or not. You see where I come from, society has a way of monitoring people, in villages, if suddenly a man that could not have two square meals, and now killed a ram, they won’t go to the party, until they are convinced of the source. We will also guarantee the independent of Anti corruption and financial crime agencies by legislation, we will make sure that they get their budget directly and it is charged to first line charge, we will amend legislation that does not allow for unnecessary adjournment. What encourages corruption is that, there are ex-governors who are in the Senate and are still facing anti corruption charges, and they have not been convicted, these are some of the things we are going to do differently from PDP to fight corruption.
The fact that some of these states belonging to APC, we can’t really say they are transparent, for instance when we talk about how they award their contract, and all such things; we can’t really say they are transparent.
What is ICPC doing? What is EFCC doing? If you know that the manner they have awarded their contract is not transparent, the EFCC can go into any office today and say we charge you to court, so what are they waiting for. You see the burden is on the federal government.
Corruption is not an exclusive preserve of Africa, there is corruption everywhere in the world, but it is those agencies that are charged with curbing corruption, preventing it and prosecuting that you should talk to. Don’t you hear about corruption in the US, don’t you hear about Mafia in Italy, don’t you hear about petro dollar oligarch in Russia? No, if tomorrow we are at the centre, we will also take responsibility for these things. I don’t want to go into this nonsense that APC governors are also corrupt; APC governors if they are corrupt prosecute them.
I will take you back on this $ 20 Billion that was said to be missing by former Central Bank of Nigeria Governor, Sanusi Lamido Sanusi raised the issue, not long that he raised the issue, he was suspended and many Nigerians have criticised his suspension, but when the federal government was to defend its action, it alleged that Sanusi mismanaged money meant for CBN and he was suspended based on the recommendation of Financial Reporting Council of Nigeria, and most of the people who spoke in favour of Sanusi were silent on the allegation made against Sanusi, I believe there should be objectivity in criticism.
Look, let me give me you an analogy, I impregnated my house maid, my house maid went to my wife and said Oga is responsible for my pregnancy, and my wife confronts me and I told her that the girl was stealing her jewelleries, we should sack her, does that resolve the issue of the pregnancy or the paternity? The point is this, if the girl was already stealing the jewellery, and because she knows you have caught her, and she felt a better way to escape is to entice the man of the house and he sleeps with her, she has a reason.
Unfortunately, it is not the same for Sanusi, because Sanusi blew the whistle before the financial accounting report. There are three reasons on the Sanusi’s matter. Number one is that even if the financial reporting council had found Sanusi guilty, the law says the president should have gone to the Senate and says this is the report of the financial reporting council and he wants to fire him, he didn’t do it. Look, we are not fools. Let me tell you what my boss told me, if I am in power today, and I want to persecute you, I will have to prosecute you. We are asking Mr. President to do things properly, you can still sack Sanusi following the law, we have never said Financial Reporting Council of Nigeria is not true, what we have said is that the law says there is no room for suspension in the law, and you do not input into it, for is not there. If you want to remove him, follow due process.
So those who are saying APC is not talking of the allegation of corruption against Sanusi are talking nonsense, the issue is not for us to talk about Sanusi’s offence, to look into the merit of demerit, we have never said that the report of the Financial Reporting Council is biased, we said even if it is true, the proper thing for the president to have done was to take it to the National Assembly and present the report and say he wants him removed, they will now look at the documents and if the president lobbies hard enough, the president will get him fired.
This issue of APC hiring an American Public Relations firm, people wondered why go to America to bring a PR, when there are Nigerians who can do better, perhaps it is the firm that carry out the research that if there were to be election today PDP will lose, is that a proper thing to do?
AKPD is not a PR firm, AKPD is neither a PR consultant nor a media consultant, they are political strategist, political consultant, today there is no Nigerian company that has the expertise or the track record to do what this firm has done. This firm conducted a survey using our own local people, engaging about 900 Nigerians, they got the report of this polls, transcript it into political strategy for us. We used this political strategy handed over to the party to pick political messages, there is no company in Nigeria that does that.
We are the first political party to hire foreign political consultant. In 2009, Neil Klieg, the then leader of Labour Democrat in the UK was approaching the elections, he went to California to hire first class political consultants, but the bottom-line is that they are not PR or media consultant, and there is no company in Nigeria, that can say it does that. We tried a company in Nigeria in 2011 that was supposed to conduct survey for, he conducted the survey for us and did the same thing to PDP, just ordinary survey, and in this kind of thing the integrity of the surveyors are important, if they are wrong the entire strategy is wrong.
Again, people ask that they are foreigners, how can they understand the terrain? Firstly they used Nigerians to gather their information, the way people behave is universal, and the methodology approach is universal.
The information that formed our road map is derived from the survey, and we will continue to campaign on it, Metuh responded that our manifestoes is a ‘janjawid’ ideology, I think it is a very sad comment from him, you don’t brand the whole people as terrorists, this kind of reckless statement from PDP will only wreck Nigeria.
Not too long, some lawmakers defected to your party, and the party almost took over the majority seat in House of Representatives, but suddenly some of them decided to return to their former party and your party alleged they were bought over, those who rose in their defence said they didn’t collect money, what is your comments on this?
Where were you in this country when Ghali Umar Nabba paraded Ghana must go bags filled up with money? Where were you during third term saga when millions of Naira was changing hands? Where were you recently about two months ago when a particular official who was special adviser was removed? Was is not the allegation of money changing hands, it is what we see.
Anyway, when they are distributing this kind of money they don’t call journalists to come and witness it.
But your party is also alleged to have given money to the lawmakers that decamped from PDP to your party, isn’t that correct?
Rubbish, why do we have to give them money? Number one, you can trace the trajectory of people who came to us, they are members of the new PDP whose governors defected to us, how much do you want to give a governor to come to your party, it is because of the faulty reporting and faulty understanding, when on November 28, it was reported that five governors joined us, it is not five governors, we signed an MOU with the new PDP, governors, Senators, leaders and members of the House of Assembly, so what we were trying to do is to formalise the change, where do we have the money they have? We believe that this kind of politics of monetary inducement cannot help us, it is politics of issues.
Those sympathetic to APC are worried on how the party will ensure rancour free selection process in future elections
What has happened in the political landscape in Nigeria between 2013 to date has divine intervention. We in APC cannot even take credit for it, we must be humbled to accept that, when we started the merger process we were high and enthusiasm, we were very high on zeal, but the challenges were enormous, we never thought we could even arrive at a common name without name without rancour talk less of a common logo or the convention of the three parties. We don’t even think we will get registered by INEC that is why I said it is divine intervention.
Secondly, implosion in PDP was not our doing, three days in 2013 changed the political history of Nigeria forever, the first was July 31, the day APC was registered, the second a month latter August 31, when six PDP governors and their leaders walked out of their mini convention, and the third November, when the new PDP and their leaders came to APC.
Now, like I have said, God that has held us all this far has a purpose for this country, that is why we are confident that God has to resolve all other issues that people thought were impossible, even the coming over of the five governors, nobody thought it was possible, God has guided us and the mindset of our leaders, when you go into merger, it is just one mindset alone that the merger must be possible at cost, and we put conditions before that as we are going into the merger, there won’t be senior partner, and our leaders made a lot sacrifice, we went into the merger, ACN has six governors, CPC has one governor, ANPP has three governors, and when they were sharing national offices , each of this party got nine officers each.
So, that spirit of sacrifice, that spirit of give and take and putting Nigeria before everything, if it persists, by the grace of God, we will have a rancour free nomination process. Also those who say we don’t have a road map, I urge them to present their own.
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